Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

By Ilyce Glink | Nov 30, 2009 |

This post was updated on December 3, 2009.

According to the latest figures, some 23 percent of Americans are underwater with their mortgage. That means their home is worth less than the amount they owe to their lender.

If you have a job, and can afford your payments, being underwater may not cause anything other than a really bad headache. But if you’ve lost your job, you’re probably running through all of your available cash plus anything you can beg, borrow and perhaps steal in order to keep making your mortgage payments.

The question on Brent T. White’s mind is “Why?”

White is a professor at The University of Arizona James E Rogers College of Law. His latest paper is called “Underwater and Not Walking Away: Shame, Fear and the Social Management of the Housing Crisis.”
(Brent White responded to this post. See #28 below for his comments.)

In the paper, White writes that despite reports that Americans are “walking away” from their mortgages, most homeowners are continuing to make payments even though they would be far better off by “strategically defaulting.”

White suggests there are two reasons homeowners don’t default, even though they are seriously underwater with their mortgage:

  1. The desire to avoid the shame and guilt of foreclosure; and,
  2. Exaggerated anxiety over foreclosure’s perceived consequences.

White acknowledges that while having a foreclosure on one’s credit score would preclude the homeowner from getting a new mortgage from Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, FHA or USDA for up to five years, it is possible to maintain good enough credit if the homeowner continues to pay his or her other bills on time and in full.

That’s what White means by a strategic default. You get your ducks in a row and then shoot the lender.

White suggests that’s no better than what many lenders deserve. He argues that lenders basically lent with no rules and no oversight, providing loans to people who were unqualified, using an appraisal system that helped cook the books with inflated numbers.

White’s entire paper seems to boil down to this point: Send a message to Wall Street and default in mass.

In his syndicated Washington Post column, Ken Harney looked at the moral implications of simply walking away from one’s mortgage. He seems incredulous that White suggests 15 million Americans should buy a new house, get their credit in order, and then walk away from their old loan:

What kind of law school professorial advice is this? Aren’t mortgages legal contracts? In an interview, White said that in anti-deficiency states such as Arizona and California, mortgage lenders have limited or no legal rights to pursue defaulting homeowners’ assets beyond the house itself. In other states, lenders may decide it is not worth the legal expense to pursue walkaways, or consumers may be able to find flaws in the mortgage documents, disclosures or underwriting to challenge the original contract.

White has an interesting point. We’ve all watched Wall Street stick it to Main Street, and today’s coming announcement from the White House about yet another program to help keep homeowners in their homes means foreclosures are going up (as job losses continue to rise).

It would feel good to stick it to Wall Street. Which is what would happen initially if this country saw 15 million defaults. But then the housing system would collapse again, leaving taxpayers to clean up a very expensive mess. Housing prices would decline another 20, 30 or 40 percent from where they are and suddenly 60 to 70 percent of Americans would be underwater with their mortgages.

I have to say I agree with Harney. It’s hard to believe that a law school professor would say that contracts don’t matter and if you don’t like the terms of the loan you signed (even if you didn’t read the paperwork) just walk away.

If enough people do that the next time you go to get a loan, you might not like the interest rate or terms you’re offered.

Read More:

Ilyce R. Glink is the author of several books, including 100 Questions Every First-Time Home Buyer Should Ask. She blogs about money and real estate at ThinkGlink.com.

 
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  •  
    1

    Ilyce Glink

    11/30/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    I just got this email from Ron:

    In April 2007 My wife and I invested in a very well done waterfront development in Texas. With the recent down turn in the economy, the value of this property has dropped to about half.

    Our investment in the $98,000 lot was 10% down on an interest only loan. With property owners fee, property taxes and interest our annual cost in nearly $10,000. Now the county has nearly doubled the property taxes. Our financial advisor says "dump it". Our question is: What is the easiest/best way to accomplish this??

  •  
    2

    Ilyce Glink

    11/30/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    From John via Email:

    There are many people who would like, and it may also be their only way of avoiding complete financial collapse, to short sale their homes but HUD is preventing this as they have a rule that says junior liens can only be paid $2500.

    There are cases where the 2nd mortgage holder says they will release the lien and accept a certain amount of money, the first says that's OK but because of HUD we can only give the 2nd $2500.

    The result is the short sale does not take place, the home is foreclosed, everyone loses out except the foreclosure lawyer, and neighborhood property values take a dive.

    I do not know why but there has been no media coverage in this problem.

    Thank You.

  •  
    3

    safemba2003

    11/30/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    If people walk away from their home and are paying PMI the bank will be paid and in theory no money is lost. Is this correct? But why is it that after foreclosure the bad loan is securitized and sold again as part of a portfolio to other financial institutions? This financial institutions will buy portfolios of loans and they are composed of good performing loands, bad loans, etc. Now they are stuck with a piece of paper that is not worth anything. They will atempt to collect the amount. This process will continue again, and again. They will not collect and now turn around and sell it to another financial institution. What are the financial regulations regarding this? How many times can you sell a bad loan on home that has been foreclosed where the bank was paid due to PMI? The regulators are not regulating and are doing nothing about securitization, hedging and mortgage insurance.

  •  
    4

    Ilyce Glink

    11/30/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    From Kathy Via ActiveRain.com:

    Wow, what a scary thought!

  •  
    5

    Ilyce Glink

    11/30/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    From Lottie via ActiveRain.com:

    "Sending a message to Wall Street" with mass defaults is likely cutting off your nose to spite your face. We'd all be in worse problems, financially and morally.

  •  
    6

    Ilyce Glink

    11/30/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    From Brian on ActiveRain.com:

    I know that many people are struggling with this tough decision. Thanks for posting. I am going to track the comments you receive on this becasue it is such a good topic.

  •  
    7

    Ilyce Glink

    11/30/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    From Suzy on ActiveRain.com:

    If you lost your job and you are underwater, it does not make sense for you to spend your savings to make the house payment. But to walk away just to stick it to Wall Street is unethical. If you can make the payments, you should continue to do so - no matter what the house is worth. You continue to make car payments even though the value drops 30% after you drive it off the lot, right?

  •  
    8

    Ilyce Glink

    11/30/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    @safemba2003:

    Thanks for your questions. First, private mortgage insurance (PMI) only covers the top 20 percent of the loan. If the homeowner took out a 100 percent mortgage (which was quite common a few years ago) and property prices have dropped 40 percent (or more in some cases), PMI would cover a good bit, but the lender would be left holding the bag for more.

    Also, several PMI companies have folded after taking billions of dollars in losses (guess their reinsurance wasn't quite up to snuff) and so the lender may or may not get anything.

    But let's say they get some, but take a bigger loss. Then, they have to clean up the property, make property tax and insurance payments, pay the lawyers, and then get what they can for the property. In some cases, lenders are getting 10 cents on the dollar for what they're owed.

    Once the property is resold, then the game starts all over again, with a new mortgage being made and then resold to Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, or FHA (depending on what the buyer chooses).

    Right now, the government is doing about 85 to 90 percent of all loans. And, they're providing a tax credit to first-time buyers and some trade-up buyers. And, they're spending $1.25 trillion to buy back the paper. In other words, the government has the housing industry on life support and I don't see that changing any time soon.

    Thanks for your comments.

  •  
    9

    RachelX

    11/30/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    I don't think walking away is unethical. Doesn't the contract say that if you make all your payments, the house is yours and if you stop making payments, the lender gets the house? So, you are just going with the second option if that is best for your current situation. As for the states who don't have a lot of recourse in going after the homeowners who walk away, well.... they should have been more careful when making the loans knowing that their risk was higher than other states.

  •  
    10

    Ilyce Glink

    11/30/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    @rachelX:

    Deed-in-lieu of foreclosure might be an option for some folks. I worry about how this country will handle another 10 million foreclosures on top of the 7 million more that are projected to be coming down the pike by the end of 2011.

    Should there be any moral consideration? What about in some states where lenders can go after your other assets?

  •  
    11

    Randorson

    11/30/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    Ilyce Glink #10:

    "I worry about how this country will handle another 10 million foreclosures on top of the 7 million more that are projected to be coming down the pike by the end of 2011."

    I actually worry that banks will be able to continue withholding foreclosed inventory to prevent further price declines to prevent realized losses, (shadow inventory) and will then seek additional taxpayer bailouts down the road once they can no longer carry these non-preforming assets on their books. I'm young and a prudent saver, but I continue to be priced out of a market that is increasingly propped up by poor government public policy. (tax credits, mortgage tax deduction, etc.) When exactly did hoping that that house prices reach a more affordable level become so unAmerican?

  •  
    12

    Ilyce Glink

    11/30/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    @Randorson:

    I think the shadow inventory question is an important one to consider. The 7 million foreclosure number that is bandied about may or may not include those homes that have already been foreclosed on but have not yet been released for sale by the banks.

    As for affordability, home prices on average have not been this affordable in two decades. Relative to income, home prices are affordable - even if they don't feel like it.

    The problem is, so many people are earning less, or don't have a job at all.

    If you're a young and prudent saver, then you will eventually have enough resources to buy a home. But given the way home prices are going (many experts feel they will continue on a downward trajectory before heading up), you might be best off waiting to buy even if it means you miss your $8,000 handout.

    Thanks for your comment.

  •  
    13

    brock ducharme

    11/30/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    Amazing, Ilyce, that you put the entire burden of this real estate bubble on the consumer and so little on the institutions.

    You threaten consumers that if they go ahead and default on their contracts, then housing prices will fall further. In fact, housing prices will fall because the bubble drove homes up faster than wage increases by double digits for years. There has been no real growth in GDP, but monumental growth in housing prices, fueled entirely by cheap credit. That's the problem. Housing prices will fall because a four bedroom in Knoxville just isn't worth $740,000 just because somebody wishes real hard. That's the cause of the future price drop, not the decision of some consumers to stop participating in their disadvantageous mortgage agreement. Why aren't you threatening the banks, saying they ought to tighten up their credit? They are why the prices will drop suddenly. That and the cataclysmic Boomer retirement, of course.

    Next, you threaten that if people walk away from their agreements, taxpayers will get stuck with the bill. Again, you're skipping an important step. You're assuming that there needs to be a bailout every time the market functions. Banks made the loans - they can take responsibility for defaults and not go running to the federal government every time the mess up on a grand scale. It's called risk management. Companies used to actually have to practice it. Why should consumers cover the banks for their lack of risk management?

    Finally, you threaten consumers that they won't get an advantageous loan in the future if the affected walk away from their agreements. Does that include the millions of subprime loans STILL out there teetering on the edge of failure? Does that include the reckless ARM mortgages? Why should anyone even WANT to get into such a mortgage again? Arrangements like this are why Germans and Japanese overwhelming rent and see property ownership as a risk - which it is. Besides, if the consumers are good risks, banks will make a fair deal, even after the next collapse. And the only reason bad-bet consumers got loans in the first place is that banks were securitizing everything with no intention of keeping the loan. If people walk away, banks may actually have to act like banks again. It's called risk management, but then I already said that.

    The big point is that institutions have NO SUCH moral hazard in this deal. They destroy trillions in American wealth and collect bonuses for their top executives while doing it. They couldn't care a whit for "walking away" from their prior "agreement" to be independent from government bailouts. They don't worry about cutting credit lines, jacking interest rates, or taking people's homes. So why should the moral hazard fall on people? They should think just exactly like the corporations who run their lives, and forget the scolds like you who shame them into playing the fools.

    But please, explain the double standards here, why bank CEOs and heads of households should have different moral standards?

  •  
    14

    Ilyce Glink

    12/01/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    @brock ducharme:

    Thanks for your comments. First, I don't put the entire bubble on consumers - but no one held a gun to anyone's head (that I know of) and forced them to sign onto loans that were tied to inflated appraisals.

    No, too many consumers looked at the easy money (Wow, my house is worth 150% more in 6 months? Hand over the cash), figuring they'd buy now, pay never.

    So, in my book, consumers who wanted it all but had no way to pay for it are a big part of the problem.

    If no one wanted all that easy money, lenders wouldn't have been able to sell mortgages. But, you're right - they're not blameless. Plenty of marketing dollars went into the snazz and jazz and they explained as little as they could get away with - which, it turns out, was a lot, thanks to Alan Greenspan believing that banks would police themselves.

    Big mistake. BIG mistake.

    The truth is that where greed comes into play, few are immune.

    I'm not threatening anything in this post. All I'm doing is pointing out the obvious. We're nowhere near the end of this recession (despite dubious, government-infused GDP numbers). The housing market is on life support. The government (Bush AND Obama) have gotten us into a jam that all the good will and wishes in the world aren't going to fix.

    What's going to fix this is time, and even more taxpayer money.

    For my buck, it all starts with jobs. Look on the cover of today's Wall Street Journal. The owner of a construction company says he should have $100 million in contracts by now. He has $30 million. He's already laid off people - and will have to lay off more. There's no money to build the infrastructure this country so badly needs.

    (By the way, Germans and Japanese have high rates of homeowners - perhaps not as high as ours, but significant. But you ignore one point - someone has to own the property that others rent.)

    Banks have to have moral hazard. You're right about one thing - they don't have it because the government bailed everyone out (except the consumer) including AIG - and never negotiated with any of them to take a haircut. Now we all know that Uncle Sam will be the backstop to the financial world, just as it is for the housing industry.

    Thanks again for your comments.

  •  
    15

    Ilyce Glink

    12/01/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    From Kr;lkq VIA EMAIL:

    I'm not sure if this is your strategy to get more readers... but quite a few are having a laugh at your expense. When you say "in mass" please clarify if you mean in Massachusetts or if you mean in a Catholic service.
    /No editor?
    //Fire him/her if he/she exists

    Fark.com

  •  
    16

    Ilyce Glink

    12/01/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    @kr;lkq

    I love that this has been posted to fark.com. Good catch on the "in mass". I deserve the drubbings.

  •  
    17

    Ilyce Glink

    12/01/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    From DAVID via EMAIL:

    Just read your column regarding Brent T. White's paper on the housing crisis and I felt compelled to send you a note.

    I think you may have missed one of White's points when you say, "I have to say I agree with Harney. It?s hard to believe that a law school professor would say that contracts don?t matter and if you don?t like the terms of the loan you signed (even if you didn?t read the paperwork) just walk away."

    White is saying that the contract DOES matter and that the borrower has rights under the contract, too. One of those rights is that the lender can ONLY take the collateral in the event of default (in non-recourse states). The lenders know this and are holding the homeowner's credit score hostage to prevent them from excersizing their rights under the terms of the contract.

    Perhaps you should re-read the paper.

  •  
    18

    Ilyce Glink

    12/01/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    @David:

    Thanks for your email. I read Professor White's paper.

    What about states that can go after your other assets? Relying on the idea that if enough people do this lenders won't chase you doesn't sound like a great strategy.

    And, I'm not sure if I agree with the "holding the credit score hostage" idea. Credit scores are a reflection of the type of credit risk we are. If you do a deed-in-lieu of foreclosure, then your credit score should reflect this choice.

    About the rights under the contract: I'd humbly suggest that everyone would be better served if they actually read their loan documents before signing. Perhaps then borrowers would be better informed.

    Thanks for your comments.

  •  
    19

    brock ducharme

    12/01/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    All good points in retort - well met.

    My only other comment would be that homeowners should still consider walking away if they are in situations that are unworkable. It is why they have bankruptcy in the first place. We may all have to take our medicine here. It is sad that it was allowed to get to this point, but that why we need regulation AND enforcement. We had neither before, and Obama isn't doing much to help us. I recommend learning gardening.

  •  
    20

    e1wood

    12/01/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    You made the comment about 'inflated appraised values'...well, I've worked in the Mortgage industry for over 20 years and NEVER was an appraisal inflated, that was WAMU and no other major lender (what in the name of God were they thinking?). Americans got use to the ATM that was their home, plain and simple. I thought I'd saved a LOT of money during the gravy times, but it's gone and now it's the 401k to live and pay the mortgage....sorry, I just can't 'mail in the keys' while I can still pay, even though it threatens my retirement, retirement, how the thought of it has changed for MILLIONS! We'll all be fighting for that 'greeter' job at WalMart, won't we?

  •  
    21

    simonee.1@...

    12/01/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    Wow what a mess.

  •  
    22

    simonee.1@...

    12/01/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    I can't let this go at that. This whole mess is so much more insidious that the general public knows. I have been going through loan modification hell for the last two years. Here is what I now know:
    1) My loan documents have so many TILA and RESPA violations it makes ME ashamed at how much fraud was involved. I paid a broker 8k in fees to ensure I had a legal, ethical transaction. But the wholesale lender paid them a whole lot more to lie.
    2) They sold my loan to Wall Street. Wall Street, in their greedy stupidity set up Trusts that will never, ever, ever modify a loan. I thought I signed a 30 year fixed; Wall Street says I signed an ARM. We are in court fighting over who is right.
    3) My note was endorsed in BLANK and the original has been lost. Wall Street in their greedy stupidity consciously skipped registering assignments of THREE of the purchases of my loan. For all we know, they may have sold it to two or three trusts (which has been known to happen). Now it is anybody?s guess as to actually owns my note because no one knows the real chain of title.
    I read here homeowners have a moral obligation. Really? Moral obligation to whom? A broker who lied on behalf of the lender who was lying on behalf of a Wall Street Investor who was lying to their investors? Moral obligation to a bank that insisted on inflated appraisals so they could get signatures to sell loans worth millions in credit default swaps? Moral obligation to servicing companies who are making billions in late fees from homeowners who have been put into no win situations?
    Not every homeowner bought their house and thought, ?oh boy, a new ATM?. Some of us have worked our butts off to have our homes and now this mess has turned our dream into a nightmare. It was not because we are stupid or we thought we could get something for nothing. It is because Wall Street and banker greed. This is the result of pure and simple greed.
    Professor White is so far ahead of the game in understanding that homeowners are in no win situations and Wall Street with the banks assistance snookered everyone.

  •  
    23

    LadyAdwoa

    12/02/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    oh me, oh my!
    What a messssssssssssss!

  •  
    24

    Ilyce Glink

    12/02/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    @ladyadwoa


    Agreed. And, getting worse, I'm afraid. Thanks for your comment.

  •  
    25

    Ilyce Glink

    12/02/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    @brock ducharme:

    Gardening is a good idea, though I can see some of the folks who have posted here and on my Are You In Loan Modification Hell? Join The Club blog post pulling out every blade of grass one-by-one in frustration.

    I do agree that there should be an out. I think bankruptcy judges should have the right to modify first mortgages BTW. (I'll just throw that out there and see if it lights on fire!). And, if you want to do a deed-in-lieu, go ahead. It's your credit score.

    But if 15 million homeowners walk away from their mortgages in unison, the result will be utter and total chaos.

    Which would certainly be interesting to watch.

    Thanks again for your comment.

  •  
    26

    Ilyce Glink

    12/02/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    @eiwood:

    I actually know a greeter at WalMart. He's my radio producer's dad and he said that there are tons of people looking for his job at the moment (he's quite happy with it).

    As for inflated appraisals, it didn't quite work that way. What I've gathered from many interviews I've done with appraisers over the years is if they didn't turn in an appraisal that was high enough to get the deal closed, they'd be blacklisted.

    Lotta pressure to get the appraisal in high enough to make everyone happy.

    Thanks for your comment.

  •  
    27

    Ilyce Glink

    12/02/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    @simonee.1

    Your situation sounds incredibly frustrating. Perhaps if you went to court, the judge would dismiss your loan entirely the way one judge recently dismissed a $550,000 home loan. He just waved his magic gavel and "POOF!" the entire loan disappeared.

    There's no question that some lenders have behaved atrociously. Proper records weren't kept in some cases. I just got an email from someone whose loan was sold and the new lender tells her that her base rate is 5.5% instead of the 3.5% she has on her set of the documents because someone at the lender's office ALTERED THE DOCUMENTS in order to get a higher price on resale.

    There's no excuse for fraud, and there's fraud all over the place. As for homeowners walking away, few people really want to walk away from their homes. It's very unsettling.

    Most folks I talk to just want to have a good, steady job, make their payments and live their lives.

    When these pieces don't come together, it feels like the world is crumbling around you.

    I'm so sorry you have to go through this. Thanks for taking a moment to explain what's happening in your world.

  •  
    28

    Ilyce Glink

    12/03/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    Brent White Responds:


    Despite the suggestion in this column, I have not advised underwater homeowners to walk away from their homes. I wrote an academic paper, not an advice column. In that paper, I simply point out that for millions of underwater homeowners their homes have become a financial albatross. A large number of these individuals would be better off financially if they let go of their bad investment, just like a bank or a corporation would do. But they don't. They don't because we have a double standard - one set of rules for Wall Street and another set of rules for Main Street. On Main Street, we are told that we have an obligation to keep our promises regardless of the personal cost. But on Wall Street, banks and corporations act ruthlessly to maximize profits or minimize losses irrespective of concerns of morality or social responsibility. This double standard means that banks have taken as much as they can from taxpayers, and given as little as they can in return. This double standard means that banks have modified only a small percentage of underwater mortgages despite the fact that it would be socially responsible to modify many more. And this double standard means that underwater homeowners have been left holding the bag - for a crisis that is not their fault. My article suggests that we either need to level the playing field by empowering homeowners to play by the same rules as banks or we need to change the law to force banks to write down underwater mortgages. One can understand why banks have not responded favorably to my article, but one would have hoped that the media would not have gone along with Wall Street in falsely portraying my arguments.

  •  
    29

    GTWYH

    12/04/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    Sounds like Economic Civil War is brewing! Family against family, neighbor against neighbor, State against State, those with jobs and homes against those without jobs and losing their homes.

    Pray this does not happen! Heartless-leadership forcing those out of their homes who due to no fault of their own are put on an ethical pedestal when Government hides behind old world sovereign law strategy banding together with Corporate Lobbyists to wipe the backbone of America the Middle Class? wealth.

    The argument of those who bought homes above their means and should pay for it now by losing their homes is not a sound argument anymore. Millions of highly-productive, results-oriented, savings-minded, giving and often volunteering professionals are in imminent danger of continued job loss with wealth destruction as a result of negative exploitation policies from the economic crisis.

    Those who did take risky loans and have missed payments are getting price reductions to relieve their burdens while the banks who created this mess are bailed out and those who played by the rules are getting severely punished having to take the brunt and bleed down their savings.

    It only seems logical that talented professional in the peak of their careers can benefit our country to help expedite out of the crisis. It is a time to value exercise as the sooner jobs and dollars can be matched the talented unemployed the sooner they pay taxes. If left unchecked the talented will be forced to fall through the net into financial and health ruins.

    Those who still have jobs and preach ethics, what are you doing to assist those in crisis? If you continue to turn your backs on those who want to work and pay taxes hoping to swoop in like vultures on their homes in a short sell, then don?t be surprised when this group bands together to fight you with everything they have.

  •  
    30

    Foreclosurenv

    12/08/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    Here is an article http://tiny.cc/wiXyH that came out last week from Wharton making the case that every underwater homeowner should walk

  •  
    31

    Ilyce Glink

    12/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    From CARL via EMAIL:

    There must be plenty of people in the same boat as me. I am upside down on my mortgage, The bank (Citi) will not re-do the loan because it doesn't appraise to what I owe and have had no luck in selling. To me, Mr White's paper is not out of the question. His comment of Banks writing down the mortgages to the new appraised value and redo the loan is the best way out for everyone. I am 65 years old and not in the best of health and may not live to see the housing market come back. What about all the younger people who will work for 10-20 years just to break even. A lot of people were counting on that equity for retirement. This needs to be addressed by Washington, the Banks will not do it on there own.

  •  
    32

    Ilyce Glink

    12/15/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    @foreclosurenv

    Thanks for the link. Interesting information. I'm not surprised they reached that conclusion. We'll have to see what happens next.

  •  
    33

    Sue Hunter

    12/17/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    I think one should differentiate between a bank financing purchase of a risky property from financing a purchase of property from a risky borrower. In the former case, I think the bank should participate in the risk. I know of a situation where there were two condo units in a development. The potential purchasers were equally qualified. One bank agreed to finance the purchase of one of the units, and another bank refused to finance the purchase of the other unit. In both cases, the developer failed to obtain a certificate of occupancy for the unit from the local jurisdiction, nor was there a certificate of compliance for the condo building. The bank that agreed to finance should share responsibility with the borrower when the developer failed to keep the building safe and in good repair, and when it turned out that that there was evidence of shoddy workmanship and materials in the units, and many of the units remained unsold, and the units that were sold became virtually worthless (i.e., unresellable). The situation then became untenable for the borrower who got the financing, when he transferred jobs and had to relocate to another jurisdiction not within commuting distance from the property he had purchased. What was he to do? He could not afford to pay both the current mortgage and living expenses in his new location. How many people could afford to maintain two households like that? Even had he not needed to move, is he expected to remain, and perhaps risk the safety and health of his family and himself? Borrowers who purchase properties in unfinished developments should not have to assume all the risk in case the property becomes distressed due to the developer?s dereliction. This may be a legitimate case for the borrower to walk away. But even in the situation of the risky borrower, the bank decided there was no risk. The bank was wrong. Why isn?t the bank responsible for its own faulty risk assessment?

  •  
    34

    Ilyce Glink

    12/18/09 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    @suehunter

    It's a great question. In fact, the federal government has decided that lenders do have to assume more of the risk. They've started by requiring lenders who do home equity loans to keep about 50 percent of the loan on hand in cash just in case of a default.

    What's interesting about that is home equity loans are quickly disappearing. The smaller mortgage brokers don't have the capitalization necessary to handle those, so they're not doing them. The bigger banks are doing them, but they've become more expensive. Instead of seeing home equity loans priced at Prime - one-half percent or just Prime, you're seeing Prime+1% or more.

    FHA is going to start to require mortgage lenders have an increased capitalization as well or they won't be FHA certified.

    But I agree with you - the banks that made these loans willy nilly should have to have some responsibility for them. But the way the system is set up, they're resold instantly and become part of a massive bond security.

    It's fascinating - and terrifying - to watch it all play out.

    Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

  •  
    35

    bret romer

    01/06/10 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    bret romer I read down through all the articles,Iam not one to walk away from my debts.I want to supply a good home for my kids.I'm a hard worker, have worked two jobs for years to supply them with a roof over there heads. This year it has been blown apart.I've lost two part time jobs and Laid off from my full time a few week at a time.
    I did buy my home two years ago, FHA no money down. A high payment,but I could do it if I worked two jobs.I payed off loans,and credit cards in this time also. Now working the one job its either pay my basic bills and feed my kids or pay my mortgage!
    Its not that I don't want to pay,its I can't because I can't find the work! So what sould I do.Well I'm thinking of Walking Away. I'm a mechanic working on trucks, Employers couldn't find enough of but now theres nothing out there.
    What started for people a couple of years ago has just started for me.Its not over and it won't be for awhile!!!

  •  
    36

    Ilyce Glink

    01/06/10 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    @bret romer:

    Stories like yours make me worry about the fragile nature of the nascent recovery - like if it's happening at all for people like you who live and work on Main Street.

    I know there's a lot of positive talk, but for me it all goes back to jobs. Today's jobs report doesn't make me feel that good. When you say "only" 85,000 jobs lost, it isn't the same thing as saying 300,000 jobs have been created.

    Yes, we're slowing the job loss slide, but we're not doing anything for the 10 million jobs that were lost from 2000-2009.

    I'm holding out a good hope that you'll be able to find more work that will allow you to hold onto your home.

  •  
    37

    rchmd

    01/07/10 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    The banks, mortgage companies and the government are to blame for the housing market. The lenders were calling it the "American Dream" own your own home, "It's the American Dream!" So they proceeded to hand out loans with no money down, no proof of income, up to $750,000 for someone with a 600 credit score. Go try to get a credit card with a 600 credit score. They already knew some of these loans were going to default. It was an acceptable risk. The problem is they never expected so many loans to go into default. How could they not see it? I thought they were supposed to be well educated and some of the brightest minds? One word....Money!
    Now these same lenders want you to think walking away is somehow immoral. I?ll tell you what is immoral, these same lenders still have their fat salaries, their fat bonuses and we are left holding the bag. Don?t count on your homes values coming back any time soon the stated loans that created this whole mess probably won?t be back and even if they did good luck finding someone on Wall Street to buy them.
    There are a lot of politicians sitting in Washington who have been sitting there for to long. The message needs to sent loud and clear. We the People will no longer tolerate business as usual.

  •  
    38

    Ilyce Glink

    01/08/10 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    @rchmd:

    There are a lot of people who feel as you do. Handing back the house can be a remedy that will work - but if millions of homeowners do it en masse, we'll have a lost decade.

    Doesn't mean they shouldn't. Just means there will be an economic response to that sort of action.

    Thanks for your comment.

  •  
    39

    Sue Hunter

    01/13/10 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    That's the point of Professor White's research. Lost personal financial life vs. possible (and some would say unlikely, as the market will adjust somehow even if it means government steps in, such as implementing remedies in White's paper) lost decade. There's also a movement urging customers to remove their deposits from big banks, e.g. from Huffington Post. Will it hurt them, who knows? In any case, it is silly to keep an FDIC-insured deposit in a big bank that pays one-fifth annual percentage yield compared to a community bank or credit union (e.g., 0.2% vs 1.00%). The movement to do this often does not mention that it does not have to be all or nothing. If you want to keep direct deposit and online bill pay at the big bank, keep just enough to continue these services to avoid the hassle factor, and only move the rest. Not leaving big banks entirely may make it easier to move money back in case they become advantageous again; at this time big banks seem not to be competing for depositors' money. (Of course, doing this applies to customers who still have savings in the first place.) Borrowers and depositors can take steps due to market failure and unlevel playing field between them and lenders/banks, but sometimes don't do so for emotional reasons. If Professor White were to perform research on depositors, I am guessing it may reveal emotional reasons behind their decisions not to get better interest for their savings ever since APYs have gone down so severely.

  •  
    40

    Ilyce Glink

    01/14/10 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    @suehunter:

    Thanks for your comments. keeping money in a government-insured credit union is a great idea - one I talk about all the time. You can also get excellent loans from credit unions. Being nonprofit, they usually offer great deals on car loans and home loans.

    I don't know if Professor White will ever do research to reveal the emotional reasoning behind bad financial decision-making, but a lot of this kind of research has been done and the results indicate that most people aren't bothered to cross the street for an 1/8 point.

    We have grown lazy during what many thought was the beginning of lifetime wealth - and in fact was only overly-easy access to cheap credit.

    Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

  •  
    41

    stopasking

    01/15/10 | Report as spam

    hmmmm

    A lot of this discussion reminds me of a Harry Truman quote...

    "It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job; it's a
    depression when you lose your own."

    It does not surprise me that the Ayn Rand admiration society
    seems to have a "Heads-I-Win,Tails-You-Lose" mindset about
    the mortgage situation....

    i.e. Homeowners MUST pay their obligations, but Business
    Tycoons should cut losses in the most ruthless, selfish way
    necessary.

    Beyond the rant....

    1. In 2006 or so....Mass housing market hysteria + "american
    dream" + opaque transactions + societal expectations +
    separation of risk and reward = bubble waiting to pop
    > banks assume everyone pays "no matter what"
    > people try to buy "no matter what"
    > prices rise due to above feedback loop

    2. In 2006 or so, mortgage payments (even rent payments)
    were often much higher than 33% of AGI for so many people
    that it seemed untenable to last for long....

    3. My Econ Prof referred to "Other People's Money" as "OPM"
    and he said "say OPM over and over, doesn't it sound like
    Opium... just remember that OPM and Opium have similar
    effects for many businesspeople"

    4. Even though I am underwater in my mortgage, I do think
    housing prices, relative to median income are STILL in need of
    correction... and would not the rest of the econ grow if
    people had more disposable income in aggregate?!?

    So, why are market fundamentalists NOT thinking that
    homeowners should be selfish and smart?!?

    Probably because market fundamentalism is often a mask for
    Calvinism, not a true "live your own consequences" life...

    ... and of course, maybe a dose of "act as if everyone did
    what you did" ....

  •  
    42

    Caffeinekid

    01/16/10 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    OK. Someone had to go and take a jab at Ayn Rand.

    First of all, to address the subject of this thread- all of the posts thus far have been dancing around the pile of dookie left while the wolf that dropped it is already a mile away. We are never going to catch the real criminals in all of this as they have already taken their profits and left the building, socializing the risk. This of course was the plan and is much a collusion between them and their government as there ever was. Ironically, people don't seem to understand the symbiotic relationship and actually demand more from the Fed. Talk about addiction. Furthermore, this is NOT a mortgage problem, but a currency problem. All of that floating paper out there was holding the whole system up from mortgages and investments to the employment that funded them. When the paper was pulled, it left a void that will not likely be filled again. Just for fun and to get a better idea, take a look at the amount of capital that the 300 point drop between now and then in the Dow represented. And it is going to drop again. Count on it.

    Second, this whole situation is the result of lost production, which is to mean REAL production that translates to REAL jobs, which happened decades ago. America avoided the consequential lowering of standard of living by adopting a credit-based system. Needless to say, the credit has nearly run out and each American is now on the hook for roughly $180K per household for government obligations current and in the near future. Add personal non-mortgage debt of what...$13K per household to that number and it should be apparent exactly how insolvent we really are as a country and a people. And we know the kind of desperation insolvency can bring, both as a matter of social behaviors and foreign policy.

    Third, it is not Austrian economics or that lack of control (regulation) that amplified this mess. It is quite the opposite actually. I would say a LOT of education in economics and finance is LONG overdue for Americans en masse. One of the most basic concepts of not basing today's decisions on tomorrows wages seems completely foreign to too many people. Ask Red China.

    And as for Ayn Rand, I still find it amazing how frequently she is either misinterpreted entirely, her musings taken out of context or her message intentionally obfuscated.

    Keep up the good job on the blog Ms. Glink, but don't be afraid to look at the larger picture. The November elections are just around the corner. We will see whether or not the crooks will get away with what they have done. If the two-party incumbents are reelected, the crooks will have succeeded again.

  •  
    43

    beachpaul

    01/18/10 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    In 1989, we bought our first house. In 1992, we were
    underwater by almost 35%. In 2008, we sold that house for
    three times what we paid for it and gladly paid the capital
    gains. We bought one of our future retirement homes, an
    apartment in NYC, with the profit. Walk away? We are sure
    glad we didn't.

  •  
    44

    Ilyce Glink

    01/26/10 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    Just wanted to say thank you. The University of Arizona Law Professor was absolutely correct.

    My husband and I started the modification process over a year ago. He has a stable job with good income and I, unfortunately, lost my job as a loan officer which put us in a financial hardship. I started calling Citimortgage in October 2008 but received no assistance. Several representatives took my information and I was placed in the modification process. I contacted them weekly for any updates.

    I was then told they made a mistake and they would have to reenter my information into the program because it had been deleted. Finally, in June of 2009, we were given a new lower mortgage payment and placed in the modification process.

    Please note: I was current on my mortgage, I have ALWAYS paid my mortgage payment and have only paid a lower payments based on the information that Citimortgage gave me. I called every week, then every month, then every other month, etc. Finally, I received a call in October 2009 from a Citimortgage representative who advised that I was in the "fast track" process and that all of the documents were received and in order. I was given the name of the "mortgage counselor", her telephone number and her email address and told to contact her with any questions. I was told that it would be reviewed and sent to underwriter within 10 days.I called many times asking to speak with her; left messages, sent emails to no avail. Several weeks later, I received another call from an outside vendor who needed more information as the necessary "button" wasn't pushed on the computer to actually send it to Citimortgage.

    In December, I was told that "Regina", my mortgage counselor, had passed the modification to the underwriter. Again I was told that it would only be another 30 days or so before this process was finished. told that loan modification paperwork would be arriving at any time.

    On January 13 & 14, 2010, I received an email and a text from Citimortgage that my loan was in the final approval stage and they "expected my loan modification to be approved with the next 3 business days". Of course, I contacted the bank several times. Again left messages for someone to get back to me. Nobody called.

    Finally, I called on 1/21/2010 and was told that my modification was approved and then denied, approved and then denied. The representative couldn't understand the notes. After many transfers, disconnections and several supervisor requests, the bottom line was that the loan modification was denied. The first reason was loan/value. The second reason was income.

    When I asked why "Regina", my mortgage counselor, had never returned any of my emails, messages from Citimortgage representatives or telephone messages from Citimortgage representatives sitting across the desk from her, I was told that she was an "underwriter" and that they don't call customers. Nobody was able to give me the name of my mortgage counselor and I would love to know who my counselor was counseling because they NEVER spoke to my husband or myself.

    As for the reasons for denial, why did it take 9 months for them to make this decision? My house value they provided to me and it hasn't gotten any better. In fact, during the 9 months they have destroyed my credit by reporting me as late, although I was told this would not affect my credit when I entered the program. I was then told that they would fix it once the loan modification was approved.

    Since I was denied, this will not be fixed. I was "pre-approved" but they said that I had to do the "trial period" in order to qualify for this program and that it would only take 3 months. Citimortgage gave me a payment amount over the phone and when I received the documentation in the mail, the dollar amount was different. It was lower.

    I called Citimortgage to advise and I was told that it was "probably" a mistake from some representatives; "probably" correct by other representatives. When I asked which amount I should pay I was told I should definitely pay the higher amount by some; definitely pay the lower payment by others and one asked me to call back Monday of the following week and it was Tuesday. I called everyday for a week and I was told new documents were ordered and would be received.

    Well, I called once or twice a week and surprise, surprise! I never received them. In fact, I finally received a letter stating that I needed to sign and return the "incorrect" documents back to the bank. After the long 9 month process, I followed all their rules, made all my payments, did exactly what they asked, and ruined my credit only to be in the same spot. Now out thousands of more dollars that I could have used wiser. There were so many mistakes that were made by Citimortgage during this process that it is hard to believe! When asked where I went from here, I was told that a letter would be sent out explaining my options. But if I wanted to walk away and foreclose, it would have to be approved by Citimortgage. Are you kidding me?

    CITIMORTGAGE SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES! The modification process is a scam! Their representatives do NOT help you; they do NOT know what they are talking about; they continuously give out incorrect information or they just do not talk to you. Not only did they NOT do anything to modify my mortgage, they left me now in a worse position than I was when I entered the program! I wish I would have found this article sooner. It would have saved me time, headache, heartache, stress and hours on the phone with representatives that cant give you answers to your questions.

  •  
    45

    jammink

    01/26/10 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    I am so torn on this. We paid 410,000 for our home in 2006. The same house down the street just sold for 166,000. We are very fortunate because we can pay our payment, but are watching the neighborhood go in a very bad direction. We pay 2% property tax on top of our mortgage payment yet things just are not getting done like they used to because of the revenue the city is losing. I am heartbroken that the people that are buying these foreclosures and short sales will see equity long before we do, if we do! On top of that we did all kinds of upgrades. we did not take out loans for this, just did things as we had money. From what I have seen so far the people buying now are at the top of their purchasing power and really not improving the house they are buying. I realize we made our bed and will pay as I watch my once beautiful neighborhood go down the drain!!

  •  
    46

    dmac890@...

    01/31/10 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    I too bought a house for over 400,000 in 2007, and recently saw a house in my neighborhood go for 135,000. My husband lost his job ,two thirds of our income, 6 months ago. We have been considering our options: we can stay and become indentured servants to our inflated, devalued mortgage, or walk away. It is becoming more evident that the banks are unwilling to step up to the plate and own their position in this housing mess and work with homeowners who are facing a financial crises such as job loss, by reworking fraudulently valued loans and then selling them off. They remind me of the bankers during the Great Depression who rather than help Dust Bowl farmers keep their farms, they brought in bulldozers and leveled them.

  •  
    47

    jcmera

    01/31/10 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    Personally I am not so sure about all this comments. I bought
    in 2004 for $514k, my income was $125k with $475k in my
    KRA that baby Bush wanted to put in the stock market . I
    was vetted and scrutinized by the bank and approved. Now
    my house is $330 worth, my income is $52k and I have $0 in
    my KRA, my housing costs are 75% of my income. ---- What
    would Donald Trump do? --- For all of you that wants us to
    eat cake, OFF WITH YOUR HEAD. After all there are only 23%
    Republicans in our population so we can send them to the
    guillotine and reduce our medicare deficit. I say Walk away.
    all of us !!! Off with their head.

  •  
    48

    Ilyce Glink

    02/05/10 | Report as spam

    RE: Underwater? Maybe You Should Walk Away From Your Mortgage?

    From Anonymous, via Email:

    What should we do? I have a question you've heard before.

    My wife bought her house in July 2005 (before we knew each other) in Indiana. She paid $124,000 ish. She got a 100% loan, 20% was interest only, 80% at 6ish% interest rate. It has been on the market for almost 3 years. She has managed to pay off the 20% loan.

    She had a land contract with a family who then decided they didn't want it anymore, but Bank Of America told us she had to renege and take ownership anyway. It is now priced ($84,000) on the market well below what she owes (and obviously what she paid).

    I expect that if she could sell it, it would require here to take $20,000-25,000 additional dollars to the table.

    I have a little money saved in another account to pay for graduate school. We keep our finances strictly separate and thus, do not want to give it to a bank for a house that I didn't buy nor would have bought for any price...it is not my style.

    She can now afford the payments currently because I am working and grad. school for me doesn't start until August (so we are both supporting ourselves independently).

    But I believe she was a victim of predatory lending practices.

    1.) When she bought it, she had $100,000 dollars in student loan debt.
    2.) She claims to have never filled out a loan application.
    3.) She had never made more than $20,000 / year prior to 2005.
    4.) They gave her a 100% loan, no down payment, for 124,000 dollars.

    I just took a $85,000 to 100,000 dollar hit on my house trying to get out of it (also bought in 2005), but made good on all the debt because of many, many years of double and triple payments.

    She took a new job about 70 minutes away from the property. This is near where I will be going to grad school in Indiana.

    I currently work in Texas, it is a rough commute for me. I cannot continue that for much longer, which is why grad school in Indiana is calling. Again, she can now afford it, but a 75 minute commute is stupid. She would like to walk away from it.

    I have seen a lot of articles on how to stay in your home. What should she do if she wants to leave it? What are the consequences?

    Thanks,
    -Tired of a 1000 mile commute.

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