Ditching Boys: Why Attending a Womens’ College is a Great Idea

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  1

  thatsally

  09/02/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Ditching Boys: Why Attending a Womens' College is a Great Idea

  Lynn, I learned something useful from your blog today about financial aid at women's colleges. And it's great to hear what a superb experience you had at your girls' school. Here at the National Coalition of Girls' Schools we'd like to see every girl have the choice of an all girls education. Did you know there is a growing number of girls' public schools in this county? the Young Women's Leadership Network is doing amazing things with their CollegeBound program for inner city girls. And you might be interested in new research from UCLA showing a statistically significant edge for college freshman who have an all-girls secondary education, over co-ed peers.
  http://www.ncgs.org/researchshowsgirlsschoolgraduateshaveanedge/I'm now really curious about the other items on your list of amazing life experiences. Can we look forward to learning more? Thanks for a great post.

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  2

  mcc99@...

  09/02/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Ditching Boys: Why Attending a Womens' College is a Great Idea

  I think it may have been a long time since the author went to college.
  
  If she were a recently an undergraduate, she would likely know that the typical coed school's student body makeup is 57% female in the first year but goes up to being 70% female by graduation. She would know most if not in some cases all the top graduates are female, those receiving most of the awards for academic and related performance are female, most of the club and interest group leaders are female (except those inherently single-sex, such as fraternities), and most of those going on to grad school are female.
  
  Coed environments inhibiting girls from developing leadership skills and positions? Not that I can tell. But if she feels in order for her to build her leadership skills it is good she went to a women's college, that's fine. But I have to ask, 1) What's wrong with developing leadership skills at a coed school *and* being female, given it is so commonplace, and 2) since the world is made up of people of both sexes (well, for now, anyway), does she think girls are better off if they develop leadership skills in the absence of boys only to find out when they graduate that, guess what, there are boys in the world too and since you spent the last 4 years learning to lead other women, don't you think you may need some remedial work on developing leadership skills around men now? Heck you could have gotten all your bases covered if you had just gone to a coed school!
  
  But what it all comes down to it is this: This article is thinly-veiled sexism and sideways male-bashing. It's this kind of thing that has so badly infected "higher educational" thinking that it has actually started to deter boys from going to college. But hey, equality is fine as long as it's women who wind up "more equal" than men, isn't it?
  
  Number of women's colleges in the US: 69
  http://dir.yahoo.com/Education/Higher_Education/Colleges_and_Universities/United_States/Women_s_Colleges/
  
  Number of men's colleges in the US: 4
  http://dir.yahoo.com/Education/Higher_Education/Colleges_and_Universities/United_States/Men_s_Colleges/
  
  Enrolled gender ratio: Male: 43% ; Female: 57%
  http://www.cardinalpointsonline.com/2.7384/colleges-aim-to-equalize-male-female-ratio-1.782117
  
  Graduation rate: Male: 25% ; Female: 35%
  http://doctorpion.blogspot.com/2009/06/gender-of-college-students-vs-time.html
  
  Equality! Hooray!
  

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  The College Solution

  09/02/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Ditching Boys: Why Attending a Womens' College is a Great Idea

  
  Thanks "ThatSally" for your comments about the value of girls' schools and for providing a link to the UCLA study on the effectiveness of girls' schools.
  
  Below I've pasted in an excerpt of the summary of the research because I think it's valuable information.
  
  I also want to share one more thing about my own experience in college after attending a private girls' high school in St. Louis. When I arrived at the University of Missouri campus as a freshman I was struck by how many women who were in leadership positions at the campus paper and in the student government were graduates of girls' high schools! I don't think that was a coincidence.
  
  Here is an excerpt from the UCLA study:
  
  For the first time, educators have solid evidence of girls' schools' effectiveness. This week, UCLA's Graduate School of Education & Information Studies released the results of a well-documented, national study which shows the statistically significant edge girls' school graduates have over their coed peers. This peer-reviewed research disentangles the effects of single-sex education from confounding demographic influences. At a time when education is on the national agenda, UCLA's study will make a significant contribution to the discussion.
  
  The findings, analyzed by UCLA's Dr. Linda J. Sax and her colleagues, draws on the large database housed at UCLA's Higher Education Research Institute. Descriptive comparisons as well as statistical analyses compares the achievements, aspirations, and behaviors of 6,552 graduates of 225 independent girls' schools, and 14,684 of their peers from 1,169 coeducational high schools (public, independent, and parochial).
  
  According to the UCLA report, which was commissioned by the National Coalition of Girls' Schools, girls' school graduates consistently assess their abilities, self-confidence, engagement and ambition as either above average or in the top 10 percent. Compared to their coed peers, they have more confidence in their mathematics and computer abilities and study longer hours. They are more likely to pursue careers in engineering, engage in political discussions, keep current with political affairs, and see college as a stepping stone to graduate school.
  
  Lynn O'Shaughnessy, author of The College Solution
  

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  The College Solution

  09/02/09 | Report as spam

  MCC99

  I'm certainly not trying to bash men. I also think all boys' schools are wonderful. My father and brothers attended all-boys Jesuit high schools and they received superb educations.
  
  I encouraged my son to attend an all-boys high school, but he had no interest at all. And I think that's why you see a dearth of men's colleges -- guys don't want to attend them.
  
  I don't think seeking the best educational opportunties for girls makes anyone a sexist.
  
  Lynn O'Shaughnessy
  
  

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  Teen mom

  09/02/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Ditching Boys: Why Attending a Womens' College is a Great Idea

  It's a shame that public schools districts have hesitated to
  experiment with single-sex schools!

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  mcc99@...

  09/02/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Ditching Boys: Why Attending a Womens' College is a Great Idea

  Teen mom: Actually, some are doing that now, only most such experiments are girls-only classrooms. Ie, there are coed classrooms and girls-only classrooms. The girls' parents decide which classes they go to.
  
  Lynn: If I told you that it maximized the educational opportunities for white and non-white kids alike if we had separate educational facilities for both ("separate but equal"), would it still be OK?
  
  Segregation (even if it is voluntary) based on indelible characteristics such as a person's sex or ethnicity, is wrong. Just because you are wanting to do it for the good of the people so separated is no excuse. We've been through that already. But as for calling these women-only colleges "private", well, that is a stretch, sort of like calling certain charities I could mention "non-profit". First they are taking students who often take out gov't-subsidized loans. The lower-than-market interest rates on these loans are being supported by the taxpayer. Second, these "private institutions" take grant and similar kinds of money from both private and public (ie, gov't) entities. Yet they restrict admission based on sex. The gov't have numerous laws regulating the behavior of higher educational institutions. The concept that they are private and thus autonomous in their policy conception has been vacated now for decades.
  
  My mother was one of the first members of the AAUW. She firmly opposed the idea of race-segregated universities, but when it came to sex-segregated, well, she had different ideas. At least, until she had three sons. Then she changed her mind. It took some time but she eventually came to believe it was a bad idea even if the campus was "quieter" without all those nasty boys running around. She finally realized that to support sex-segregated campuses for women, one must also do so for men. And she was one of the "50s feminists" who clamored for private colleges and universities to admit women, and insisted the gov't get involved to stop it, as most at the time only admitted men.
  
  Just like Jim Crow, simply because it is legal doesn't make it right. And if you're wondering if I think those last remaining 4 men's colleges should become coed, the answer is yes. They too should not be restricting admission based on sex.

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  7

  celestial3

  09/02/09 | Report as spam

  Men should ditch girls as well...

  Given the amount of misandry, sexism, discrimination and
  routine male bashing that my sons experience almost
  everyday in the public school system I can think of no better
  place, no better time and the hope that we recognize the
  absolute need to create, fund, subsidize and grow male only
  colleges in concert with the female institutions, because as
  Christine Hoff-Somers so accurately and astutely pointed
  out, there is an all out war on boys in education, largely
  perpetuated by females. We have failed our sons. I am
  fine with women's only colleges, and hope we provide an
  equal outlet to young college age going men, to escape the
  feminized tyranny of anti-male and anti-masculinist thinking
  which floods our schools today.

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  The College Solution

  09/02/09 | Report as spam

  MCC99

  You suggest that women's private colleges should be prohibited from remaining single sex because they accept outside government money and hence should not be allowed to discriminate against men. But if you accept that line of reasoning then shouldn't you be gunning for the Ivy League universities and other elite schools who routinely accept legacy kids. That's affirmative action for the wealthy and the policy is quite discriminatory.

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  9

  mcc99@...

  09/03/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Ditching Boys: Why Attending a Womens' College is a Great Idea

  "...But if you accept that line of reasoning then shouldn't you be gunning for the Ivy League universities and other elite schools who routinely accept legacy kids. That's affirmative action for the wealthy and the policy is quite discriminatory."
  
  Indeed it is, but not based on indelible characteristics. The discrimination is based rather on familial and financial associations. And as for thinking that that too isn't right, yes, I agree. It isn't right and should also be stopped, and unless it is stopped, public funds shouldn't be channeled toward them (not that such schools need too much public money anyway, even though they will happily take it).
  
  Colleges in general today use a lot of factors to decide whether or not someone gets in. That is because the admissions issue has become a matter of public policy and legal ramification: No discrimination based on certain characteristics is allowed while other factors are permitted in the decision. Some of those other factors make sense, e.g.: grades, extracurricular activities, etc. Others though are irrelevant to the question of merit and shouldn't be in consideration, such as legacy associations (i.e., did one of the applicant's parents go there or not), wealth level of the applicant's family (i.e., as long as the student can pay the tuition, whether or not they are a Rockefeller shouldn't matter, all other things being largely equal), the applicant's ethnicity, sexual orientation, and of course, gender.
  
  Unless of course it's a women's college. Then it seems gender is a perfectly fine consideration. But everything else... nope, can't have it...

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  E.H.M.

  09/03/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Ditching Boys: Why Attending a Womens' College is a Great Idea

  I am currently a junior at Wellesley College and while I love it, including the single-sex environment, I have to vehemently disagree about Wellesley's financial aid and the affordability of these schools.
  
  I am married with an 8 month-old daughter and my husband is a student at Harvard. I am getting minimal financial aid from Wellesley because of a policy stating that I must be over 24 to be considered independent of my parent's household; thus, their tax information is what is looked at to determine my financial aid. My husband and I live off the Wellesley campus because there are no accomodations for married students. I have been forced to take out extensive student loans, some federal, some private, to make up for the large gap in my financial aid.
  
  If Wellesley wants to be a truly great women's college they need to be more sensitive to women's issues, such as motherhood, and make it easier for students like me to further our education, instead of maintaining rigid policies that make it nearly impossible to afford to attend, let alone to graduate.

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  The College Solution

  09/04/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Ditching Boys: Why Attending a Womens' College is a Great Idea

  EHM,
  
  A criteria for being considered an independent student is to be married -- regardless of whether you have reached the age of 24. Have you talked to Wellesley since you were married? The school should have discretion in how it treats your case.
  
  Mark Kantrowitz, who is a national expert on financial aid, just wrote a blog post about just your sort of predicament. Good luck and here is the link:
  http://www.fastweb.com/financial-aid/articles/1491-ask-kantro-how-does-job-loss-affect-federal-student-financial-aid?page=2
  
  Lynn O'Shaughnessy, author of The College Solution
  

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  MakingConversation

  09/04/09 | Report as spam

  RE: Ditching Boys: Why Attending a Womens' College is a Great Idea

  Chacun ? son go?t. Each to his or her own taste. The market will rule what is available. It seems like there are many good arguments on both sides.
  
  I went to a girls day school which is now integrated into the boy's school (They moved over and through the woods to the Boy's campus). For me, those four years created a solid foundation in ideas and intellectual curiosity as well as, and, for me, most importantly, self-confidence. When I graduated, I went to essentially an all boys college 13 women of 400 in the freshman class. As the only girl, I was called on every day in my Accounting class (8:00 am.). It did not faze me. For me, during those formative adolescent years, so long ago, a single sex school was great. I think it depends on the teen.
  
  The key in all of the college selection is to make sure that the teen is actively involved in the ultimate choice and takes responsibility for this important decision. I only hope that each teen has options from which to choose.