The Truth About Tim Geithner’s Housing Headache

By Alison Rogers | Jun 5, 2009 |

When news of U.S. Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner’s housing troubles came out, typers jumped on the story as a “symbol” of what’s wrong with the housing market. (Geithner tried to sell his Westchester home this past spring, failed to get his price of $1.6 million, and rented it for $7,500 a month.) For example, there’s not one, but two stories on financial wonk blog Seeking Alpha — “Geithner’s Real Estate Headaches Microcosm of U.S. Market Ills” reads one; “High End Home Market Still Has Further to Fall,” reads another.

Both these pieces (the former by Bruce Krasting, the latter by Jason Tillberg) seem to argue that Geithner’s inabilty to get a better rental income is a sign that real estate is going to heck in a handbasket. Tillberg argues that home values will come into line with a better price-to-rent ratio, thus causing high-end house prices to fall by some 30 percent. (By the way, he’s short Toll Brothers, a major U.S. homebuilder. Just in case you were wondering.)

Krasting, who is himself trying to sell a house in Westchester County, at least zeroes in on the freeze in the high-end mortgage markets. (It’s been tough to get financing for a million-dollar home for approximately 18 months now.) However, he says “[H]e [Geithner] is renting it for $7,500. The rent is 25% less than what a real purchaser would be forced to pay. No wonder he is having trouble selling it.”

First of all, any real estate agent anywhere in the country will tell you that pulling a house off the market after less than four months does not count as “having trouble selling it.” If anything, the ability to pull a listing that quickly and carry it as a rental is pretty atypical, a luxury that rich people alone have. Or as the Westchester Board of Realtors put it in their first quarter report: “The wild card that defeats ordinary supply and demand analysis in Westchester continues to be the ability of potential sellers to time their listing activity to market conditions.”

But more importantly, you don’t need to get a home to rent for what you would pay for it in order to be “even.” Did you hear me, price-to-rent-ratio cultists? When you rent a home, you pay your rent in after-tax dollars, which are not tax-deductible. When you buy a home, the first one million dollars of mortgage interest, and all of your property tax payments, are tax-deductible. So the monthly payments that you make to carry your home purchase might be higher than the equivalent rent, and it could still be a smart consumer decision to buy.

Conversely, if you’re trying to carry a pre-existing purchase with your tenant’s rent money, you might have to make up the difference out of pocket — but suddenly repairs on the property are tax-deductible. So the fact that Secretary Geithner isn’t pulling in enough rent to make what the typers are speculating his mortgage costs are doesn’t make him an idiot — he is simply generating losses that he can use to offset taxes on his income. (Which, due to increased public scrutiny, he probably has to pay on time.)

And at the end of the day, or the year, or whenever he comes home from Washington, he still has a five-bedroom house that he can put a sofa in. I hate looking at homes as “investments” — I agree with the Robert Kiyosaki theory that they are “consumption” — but they do have a worth above and beyond their volatile, marked-to-market financial price. You can’t cook a lasagna in your shareholdings — or your shorts — of Toll Brothers.

Unlike a stock whose price is sliding, where you as a holder might be tempted to bail before you get more deeply hurt, it’s okay to hold real estate through a dip, because it’s still a usable asset.

 
Reply to Story

MoneyWatch TalkbackShare your ideas and expertise on this topic

Subscribe to this discussion via Email or RSS

  •  
    1

    brucekrasting

    06/05/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Truth About Tim Geithner's Housing Headache

    I am going to disagree with your comment:

    "you pay your rent in after-tax dollars, which are not tax-deductible. When you buy a home, the first one million dollars of mortgage interest, and all of your property tax payments, are tax-deductible."

    Your facts are 100% correct but it rarely works as you describe.

    Take the guy/gal making $500k per year working in NYC and living in Westchester. He/she buys the Geithner home, gets a mortgage and has a new $120K deduction.

    NYS/NYC are very high income tax areas, Westchester has high property taxes. This person has already too many deductions. They will fall into the AMT trap and be unable to use all of their deductions. Interest and other taxes paid are legitimate deductions but there is a cap on them.

    AMT has not been fixed. It's status is the same as it has been for the last three years. If you paid AMT in the prior year you are subject to it this year. 80% of all residents in Westchester earning more than $100k are subject to AMT. That is most of the homeowners.

    AMT revenue for 2009 is projected at $700 billion. Another way to look at this is that $700 billion of tax deductions have been lost.

    If you make $100k per year and buy a $300k home you can deduct everything. However if you make $500k and buy a $1.6mm home in a high tax area you better make sure that those deductions you are creating are in fact usable.

    bk


  •  
    2

    brucekrasting

    06/05/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Truth About Tim Geithner's Housing Headache

    This bit from the Westchester County Board or Realtors you quote:

    ?The wild card that defeats ordinary supply and demand analysis in Westchester continues to be the ability of potential sellers to time their listing activity to market conditions.?

    This is bunk. There is one selling season here. Easter to June 30. Ask a few of the folks who tried to use that 'wild card' they are talking about and listed their homes in January. They got nothing for their effort.

    Sales are very slow. There is a tremendous amount of listed properties, but the amount of homes that are not on the market but who's owners would like to sell is a very big one.

    There is very little liquidity in housing today. There seems to be demand for distressed properties only. It is cause for a fair bit of worry for a good number of people. The Wild Card spin is not very helpful.

    Bruce Krasting

  •  
    3

    Richard Eisenberg

    06/05/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Truth About Tim Geithner's Housing Headache

    Let's just hope Geithner has a better tax pro doing his return
    this time.

  •  
    4

    esmthjh

    06/06/09 | Report as spam

    Message has been deleted.

  •  
    5

    aliroger@...

    06/07/09 | Report as spam

    RE: The Truth About Tim Geithner's Housing Headache

    Bruce, you take issue with two of my points, and -- based on my personal experience -- I'm going to "mea culpa" on one and continue to disagree with you on the other.

    I think your point about the AMT is an excellent one. The first million of mortgage interest is "technically" tax deductible, but to a high-earner, the lens of AMT takes away what the mortgage-interest deduction granted. I am shocked to hear it is as high as 80 percent, but the point is that you're totally right here. My apologies.

    As to your disagreement with the Westchester Board of Realtors -- well, I'm a member of my local boards of Realtors (Manhattan and New York City) and I agree that what they are putting out in their statements is probably spin. However, I'm not sure -- and I'm just extrapolating from my personal experience here -- that it's totally wrong. I have a lot of New York City clients who are seeking liquidity, and they would sell at a certain price, but if they don't get it, they pull out of the market. For one thing, they often have multiple assets -- maybe some stocks, maybe a beach house, maybe a ski condo -- and if they can't liquidate one thing at the price they want, they may sell something else. I agree that we're in the realm of speculation here, but it seems that if these sellers truly needed to sell at any price, they would cut their prices and/or offer seller financing to make it happen.

    Just my two cents -- let me know what you think.

    ali

Please add your comment:

  1. You are currently: a Guest |
  2.  

Basic HTML tags that work in comments are: bold (<b></b>), italic (<i></i>), underline (<u></u>), and hyperlink (<a href></a)

advertisement
  • Click Here
  • Click Here
  • Click Here

Alison Rogers

Since graduating from Harvard summa cum laude, Alison Rogers has been a reporter, an editor, a real-estate agent, a Wall Street desk jockey, a columnist, a failed flipper, and a landlady. A member of the National Association of Realtors, she currently sells and rents luxury co-ops in Manhattan for the Chelsea-based firm DG Neary. (If you've got $27,500 a month, the firm has an apartment for you!) Her book, Diary of a Real Estate Rookie, was called "a valuable guide for rookie buyers" by AOL/Walletpop, "beach-read fun" by the New York Observer, and "witty" by Newsweek.

Alison Rogers

Click Here
track your portfolio