What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

Health care reform, if it passes, will cost about $1 trillion over the next 10 years. Negotiators in the Senate and House are now saying they’ve winnowed the cost down to “only” $900 billion or so. Where will that money come from? Look in the mirror.

Although President Obama and congressional leaders have been adamant that health care reform will be financed through savings on existing programs or new revenue, the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the House proposal would actually increase the deficit by $239 billion over 10 years. While it’s too soon to say what the final plan or its financing will look like — several versions of the bill in both the House and the Senate would have to be reconciled before final votes are held — here are the key financing options that are on the table.

Squeeze savings out of Medicare and Medicaid

  • Support: Fairly broad-based
  • Opposition: Some insurers and health care providers that stand to lose money
  • Likelihood of inclusion in final bill: High
  • Value over 10 years: $465 billion
  • Potential cost to you: If you’re a Medicare Advantage patient, the quality of care might suffer.

This proposal would provide about half the money necessary for the health care overhaul, in part by reducing payments to hospitals that treat Medicare patients. Payments to private Medicare Advantage plans would be trimmed by $156 billion over 10 years to bring them in line with payment rates for patients in traditional Medicare. Supporters of a private-market approach to Medicare, who have seen the writing on the wall for some time on this issue, caution that some seniors may suffer if private plans, which may offer enhanced services and better-coordinated care than traditional Medicare, pull back in their markets.

Tax the wealthy

  • Support: House Democrats
  • Opposition: Republicans, some newly elected House Democrats from wealthier districts, Senate Finance Committee members who believe any new tax revenue should come directly from the health care sector
  • Likelihood of inclusion in final bill: Uncertain
  • Value over 10 years: $544 billion
  • Potential cost to you: If you’re an individual making over $280,000 or a family with income over $350,000, you could eventually be looking at a tax surcharge of from 1.0 to 5.4 percent on your income above that amount.

The current House bill would impose an income tax surcharge starting at 1.0 percent on the top 1.2 percent of earners in the country, or individuals with adjusted gross incomes over $280,000 and families that earn more than $350,000 (some legislators are calling for a higher threshold, however). The Joint Committee on Taxation estimates that the surcharge would have no impact on 96 percent of small businesses, but “imposing taxes on anybody in a recession is not going to promote economic growth,” says Joseph Antos, a health policy expert at the right-leaning American Enterprise Institute. Negotiators on the Senate Finance Committee reportedly prefer to raise revenues to pay for health reform from within the health care system itself, by taxing the value of health insurance benefits, for example, or penalizing employers who don’t offer health insurance.

Tax employee health insurance benefits

  • Support: Senate members have discussed implementing a capped version of this tax; President Obama has not ruled it out.
  • Opposition: Labor unions
  • Likelihood of inclusion in final bill: Moderate
  • Value over 10 years: Full taxation would yield $2.5 trillion; capping the exclusion at the level of the standard federal employee plan would generate $418.5 billion.
  • Potential cost to you: You’d have to pay taxes on the value of your employee health plan or, more likely, on the amount of its value that exceeds an average employee’s — now about $13,000.

A typical health insurance plan for a family costs about $13,000 a year, but you pay no income tax on the contributions that your employer makes toward those benefits. That freebie costs the federal government approximately $245 billion in forgone income tax revenues every year. Economists and health policy experts favor eliminating the tax exclusion, as it’s called, on the grounds that it encourages overly generous coverage that, in turn, encourages employees to use more health care than they need. Rather than eliminating the tax break entirely, another option would be to cap it at a certain level — for example, the amount of the standard federal employee’s health plan, which is now worth about $13,100. Unions, which often have richer-than-average benefits, are strongly opposed to any tax change. Recently, a third option emerged: Tax the insurers or employers that offer “overly” generous plans. Although more politically palatable, experts warn that those charges would get passed along to consumers, likely in the form of higher premiums.

Limit the itemized deductions of the wealthy

  • Support: President Obama
  • Opposition: Nonprofits, homeowners groups, real estate professionals
  • Likelihood of inclusion in final bill: Slim
  • Value over 10 years: $267 billion
  • Potential cost to you: If you’re in the top income tax brackets, your ability to fully itemize deductions would be reduced.

This proposal would require taxpayers in the top 33 percent and 35 percent income tax brackets to deduct certain items, like their contributions to charitable organizations and mortgage interest, at the lower 28 percent rate. President Obama recently spoke in favor of this revenue raiser, but it was loudly booed by nonprofits that depend on charitable contributions, as well as homeowners and real estate professionals who benefit from the mortgage tax break. Like the surcharge on the wealthy, this proposal has also gotten less traction among Senate Finance Committee members, because it isn’t directly linked to the health sector.

Impose or raise “sin” taxes

  • Support: Senate Finance Committee members
  • Opposition: Soft drink and alcoholic beverage manufacturers, grocery and restaurant trade groups
  • Likelihood of inclusion in final bill: Uncertain
  • Value over 10 years: $113 billion
  • Potential cost to you: A tax of 3 cents per 12-ounce can of sugar-sweetened beverage and an excise tax of about 14 cents per bottle of beer or glass of wine
  • Although not strictly related to health care financing, there’s a certain logic to raising money for health reform through taxes on sugary soft drinks and alcohol. On the other hand, sin taxes tend to fall disproportionately on poor people, who have less ability to pay taxes in the first place. Interest in this option got a boost following a recent report that obesity-related costs account for over 9 percent of all annual medical spending, or $147 billion. People changing their habits as a result of new taxes could lower these expenses, but those savings are hard to quantify and may be offset by Social Security and Medicare costs attributed to people living longer, as the CBO has noted.

Penalize employers who don’t offer health insurance

  • Support: Broad-based
  • Opposition: Some small-business groups
  • Likelihood of inclusion in final bill: High
  • Value over 10 years: Up to $163 billion
  • Potential cost to you: If you’re a small-business owner, you might have to pay a stiff penalty if you don’t insure your workers.

Both bills have “pay or play” provisions that penalize employers who don’t offer health insurance to their workers. But penalties in the House version are more stringent — up to 8 percent of payroll — compared with the Senate version, which would impose a flat $750 penalty per full-time worker. Some small businesses would be exempt from this provision, including employers with 25 or fewer employees under the Senate bill and employers with annual payrolls of less than either $250,000 or $500,000 under the House bill. (The House committees approved different thresholds and will have to work out the differences.)

Lower the insurance subsidy threshold

  • Support: Fiscal conservatives
  • Opposition: Consumer advocacy groups
  • Likelihood of inclusion in final bill: Uncertain
  • Value over 10 years: Unspecified for now
  • Potential cost to you: If you make between $32,490 and $43,320 a year, you might lose out on subsidies to help you pay for your health insurance.

Current House and Senate bills allow individuals and families with incomes up to four times the federal poverty level ($43,320 for a single person or $88,200 for a family of four) to qualify for help buying coverage through the national insurance exchange. But as negotiators look for ways to trim health reform’s trillion-dollar price tag, the more than $700 billion that’s earmarked for subsidies could come under scrutiny. “Reducing the outlay from 400 [percent] to 300 percent of poverty is probably something they’ll have to do,” says Paul Ginsburg, president of the Center for Studying Health System Change, a nonpartisan research and policy organization. It’s a tough call between raising health insurance costs for someone who earns just a bit more than someone else and saving tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars in total program costs. Then again, most of these choices are.

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  •  
    1

    Ldrosen

    08/11/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    Where in the House or Senate bill(s) do I find the details of Tax
    employee health insurance benefits?

    Thanks

  •  
    2

    mwc2009

    08/11/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    If having the plan with cost a trillion, what is the cost of just sitting there a previous presidents have done, doing nothing to control the out of control spending for the existing medical plans?? At my last company we saw increases of 10, 15 and 20% increases from Blue Cross coverage.

  •  
    3

    kennethetucker

    08/11/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    The next time someone screams; "IT"S GONNA COST A TRILLION $$!?", remind them that 1) That's over TEN years and 2) that we've jist pissed that much away in IRAQ in just 6 years, WITHOUT it EVER being included in the budget (all 'emergency supplementals') and the 'meter is STILL running'.

    I'll take healthcare reform v the NEXT BS war, thank you.

  •  
    4

    TommyRector

    08/12/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    When did we all think that government support would not have to be paid for? We all want low (ie, nonexistent) taxes, and the best government services. Literally, there is no free lunch. We will all have to pay OUR FAIR SHARE toward the services that America needs to address. Lets put aside the rhetoric and get down to the business of bringing America back to its rightful place as the leader in fiscally conservative, yet socially liberal, policies.

  •  
    5

    Silent Observer

    08/12/09 | Report as spam

    Make the congress speed up

    Quick and easy way to speed up Congress and the executive branch on this issue - remove all freebie health coverage they have now. Get rid of the onsite gym they use for free. Make them pay out of the pocket (yeah - not like it will cost them as some company will surely pay their premiums).

  •  
    6

    apetchel

    08/12/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    Who do you think pays for health care for the uninsured now, when they walk into a hospital? By law the hospital has to treat them and they pass the bill along to the insurance companies and us through higher costs and higher premiums. The amount that the health care industry all ready pays to treat the uninsured would more than cover basic health insurance for all. If we do not get this problem fixed it won?t cost A Trillion dollars over Ten years, it will start costing a Trillion dollars a Year. Who will pay for it then?

  •  
    7

    kkcnie

    08/12/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    In response to ?kennethetucker?. I appreciate your frustration with spending on the wars. As of today, approximately $915 billion has been spent on wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (Ref: http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home)

    I am curious as to why you are attempting to justify the wasteful spending of one government program (Health Care Reform) by citing another (The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan).

    Let?s do a little fuzzy math.

    In 2007, the expenditures in the United States on health care surpassed $2.27 trillion, about $7,421 per resident (306 million residents). (Ref: http://www.kaiseredu.org/topics_im.asp?imID=1&parentID=61&id=358)

    The annual cost to conduct the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan ($915 billion / 8 years) = $114 billion annually, or about $373.00 per resident.

    If the wars ended today, and we applied the $373.00 to the cost of health care, (rather than the deficit), the health care cost per resident would be approximately $7,047 for a total $2.16 trillion.

    If all of the defined saving and additional taxes were successfully implemented, this would result in an average of about $197 billion per year or about $643.00 per resident reduction. Again, if we applied to the cost of health care, health care cost per resident would be approximately $6,403 ($25,613 for a family of four) for a total $1.95 trillion.

    I?m not seeing a solution here?.

    Where do you suggest we getting the annual $1.95 trillion?

    The IRS will be happy to accept your donation.

  •  
    8

    maoszman804

    08/12/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    I sure as heck didn't spend $7,047 on health care last year. And not even that this year. I did spend it about three maybe four years ago. But I'm ok, now, thank you.

    Everyone's reasoning isn't right. You have good health years and bad health years. Everybody isn't sick at once. Jeez, get a grip on yourselves. If we all got sick at once as some of you surmise, you might as well freakin panic because that's the pandemic from hell and most of the population will be dead anyway from just freaking out.

    Even a visit to doctor is probably going to occur once maybe twice a year, if you feel like it. Most people don't go until they feel like crap for too long or the significant other just won't shut up about it.

    Yeesh. Talk about John McCain's birth certificate for once or something like why Best Buy won't honor the $9.99 tv error. You are getting your ******* in a bunch about nothing. Leave the Congress alone and let them debate.

    Frankly, Congress should just beef up Medicare and Medicaid, instead of creating all new buracracy. Expand it to include the uninsurable and be done with it. Yeesh.

    Unless you guys are serious about killing off the weak and uninsured.

  •  
    9

    willid3

    08/13/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    well, if we do nothing, the 2.3 (or is it 2.5?) trillion that we paid for health care will be up to 3 trillion in 2-3 years. and thats if employers keep offering health insurance, of which only just barely more than 50% of all those who have done, still do. and its dropping. while we seem to like the health care provided, the real problem is the insurance. and that what Congress is trying to address. if we do nothing, your chances of getting private health insurance today are slim, unless you have no preexisting conditions, minor or major. and what you can get, if any, is really expensive and covers little. and it can be canceled just as you desperately need it (like for life saving surgery maybe). and it could take months or years to get it resolved

  •  
    10

    willid3

    08/13/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    well, if we do nothing, the 2.3 (or is it 2.5?) trillion that we paid for health care will be up to 3 trillion in 2-3 years. and thats if employers keep offering health insurance, of which only just barely more than 50% of all those who have done, still do. and its dropping. while we seem to like the health care provided, the real problem is the insurance. and that what Congress is trying to address. if we do nothing, your chances of getting private health insurance today are slim, unless you have no preexisting conditions, minor or major. and what you can get, if any, is really expensive and covers little. and it can be canceled just as you desperately need it (like for life saving surgery maybe). and it could take months or years to get it resolved

  •  
    11

    kennethetucker

    08/14/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    "Health care reform, if it passes, will cost about $1 trillion over the next 10 years. "

    (OLD) News Flash >> In IRAQ *(in JUST 6 years) we PISSED AWAY a TRILLION dollars in an illegal war SOLD on fear, to the benefit of war profiteers/corporations/oil cos.

    I'll take health care, this go round, thank you. And, if you want to pay for it, cut 1/3 to 1/2 of the overseas military bases that Empire AmeriKa has positioned in 142 countries and there's $100-200 Billion/Yr = $1-2 Trillion you need to 'pay' to 'promote the general welfare' (that oft forgotten phrase in the US Constitution's preamble:

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

    Are we 'clear'?

    A Viet Vet (volunteer), Progressive, card carrying ACLU member AND NRA lifetime member too.

    Enough.

  •  
    12

    kennethetucker

    08/14/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    kkenie

    'fuzzy math is RIGHT! you're conflating per capita total health care spending with health care coverage/insurance as one in the same while discounting the significant savings that will come of health 'maintenance' v disease 'management'.

    still, gonna take a commitment to attending to the 'general welfare' v being 'Empire America' and, i for one, would rather see rural health clinics (I have to drive 100 mi for my government funded & controlled VA health care and it's 'fine', 'cept for the drive) than military bases in 142 countries (not counting the 'black sites'/bases we do NOT know about): http://www.alternet.org/story/47998

    The total of America's military bases in other people's countries in 2005, according to official sources, was 737. Reflecting massive deployments to Iraq and the pursuit of President Bush's strategy of preemptive war, the trend line for numbers of overseas bases continues to go up. Interestingly enough, the thirty-eight large and medium-sized American facilities spread around the globe in 2005 -- mostly air and naval bases for our bombers and fleets -- almost exactly equals Britain's thirty-six naval bases and army garrisons at its imperial zenith in 1898. The Roman Empire at its height in 117 AD required thirty-seven major bases to police its realm from Britannia to Egypt, from Hispania to Armenia. Perhaps the optimum number of major citadels and fortresses for an imperialist aspiring to dominate the world is somewhere between thirty-five and forty.

  •  
    13

    Reiner_X

    08/16/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    The United States spends a larger share of its gross domestic product (GDP) on health care than any other major industrialized country. Expenditures for health care that is over half of the $2 trillion each year is due to wasteful practices. The health care costs that are indicated to be wasteful are behavioral, clinical, and procedural ? what that means is that behavioral patterns could be addressed by someone other than a doctor, clinics order unnecessary tests, and health insurance companies might be padding their bills. The biggest cause of people needing an extra cash advance for medical care is overtesting ? unnecessary procedures so the physician can cover himself legally, or just gouge patients for cash. Doctors padding bills ? no wonder health care costs drive people to needing a personal loan for a simple check up.

  •  
    14

    Hecatesmaid

    08/17/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    Ok - I am sorry but all of this is crap. We all make choices - I do not understand why I have to "assist" others in their stupid choices. I am not getting any of this at all. Free birth control...but millions of "accidents", (paid for by the...yes! TAXPAYERS) the ability to make correct life choices...but "I want to do what I want...the ____________(fill in the blank) will take care of me" I have read about the war above and about the "poor beings" that cannot afford health care and I ask HELLO - IS THERE ANYONE WITH ANY SENSE OF SELF RESPONSIBILITY? Why is it that I am suppose to pay for services that I cannot even access - ok for me to pay - but ooooh you can't use them WHO WOULD PAY? OH Wait then their is my other favorite... financial aide for college...I work and am a TAX-PAYING citizen, therefore I must fund - durst not be funded (and HELLO all I want is to take care of MY OWN FAMILY)! I hate to sound like a being-hater but I am just not understanding why there is this thought that anyone should be "taken care of" - a hand up YES...the mindset of the hand-out NO! Yet, here we are...lined up with our hands out. Our founding fathers would be ashamed - I am ashamed. When they read the history of America in another 200 years they will shake their heads and think what pompous fools we were.

  •  
    15

    mwc2009

    08/18/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    Yea, let's just all worry about our own lives and everything else will fall into place. By disregarding all those that dont have the education or more normal family life you will add to the dilemma and create a bigger, more longer lasting social problems. If you think they can afford decent benefits on a 25000.00 a year then you must be kidding?? What kind of world are you suggesting any way? Is that the kind of selfish and narrow minded thoughts do you want to foster? That's not to say that there has to be more oversight and controls put on the spending, but even the founding fathers believed in social responsibility. The government has to be involved in the lives of those that can't afford the basics like health care, that most people just take for granted.

  •  
    16

    terjeb@...

    08/18/09 | Report as spam

    Here's why it'll be cheaper in the long run

    This may sound strange, but it will be cheaper simply because you will get a lot "less" "service" from the
    health care system with "socialized" medicine.

    In most of the world doctors are more or less salaried. They get a little on the top for this and that, and
    they make decent money (at least in the western world). In the US they are paid for the type of
    procedure they do. A lot.

    Is this bad for you? Yeah, actually, if by "you" you mean all of us. You see, this means that doctors
    incentives are not related to what will get you "fixed", but what will make them money. Let me use a
    personal example. I had a bad leg problem that kept me hospitalized for a little over a week. During that
    time the doc had my leg MRI'ed five times. The insurance company would only cover three, and I cursed
    the bastards and paid for the other two. Expensive as all heck. I got out, got well, and told a friend of
    mine who is a doc. He laughed. "You got screwed" he said. Doc needed a pre-MRI and a post-MRI. No
    need for the three in the middle. Made a chunk of money though, and I am not going to argue with the
    doc when I am the sick one.

    Car mechanics try to push useless stuff on you every time you have your car fixed. You know this, and
    you try to get them for it. Car mechanics have NOTHING on doctors.

    The reason this country is in so much trouble over health care is simply because the doctors of this
    country (not all of them, but a majority) spends all of their time trying to squeeze as much as they can
    out of the insurance company, and with litigious-happy Americans suing everybody, even the insurance
    companies are running scared. You and I pay.

  •  
    17

    jimih2009

    08/18/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    Just TRY to get 'affordable' health insurance, if you have asthma, anxiety disorder, Rheumatoid arthritis, or any of many many more on-going conditions that insurance companies use to exclude you. If you don't have insurance becasue your company doesn't provide it OR because you lost your job OR are under-employed OR becasue you are too ill to work, YOU CAN'T GET INSURANCE. This is disgusting.

    I personally know many people in their 50s and even 40s who have illnesses that keep them from getting or doing fulltime jobs. They want to to work but either can't or aren't allowed to. If these people could be guaranteed insurance that they could afford on a sliding scale from $0 to whatever, they could be productive, useful, and helpful citizens.

    What is the true cost of not allowing these people to be treated. We are not all a bunch of lazy people who planned badly. Many many of us have had one or more life-altering illnesses or job losses that have put us into this state of ruin. AND guess what, if we need treatment, we can go to the emrgency room and get treated short -term for free now, and guess who is already paying for that?

  •  
    18

    blacknblue2

    08/18/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    Very, very tired of hearing the beggars knocking at the door of government. Free health care? Doesn't exist. If you like it ir not, all National Plans are in trouble:

    http://www.vancouversun.com/story_print.html?id=1878506&sponsor

    Thousands of surgeries may be cut in Metro Vancouver due to government underfunding, leaked paper

    http://www.thisfrenchlife.com/thisfrenchlife/2004/07/health_service_.html

    Health service shake up
    By Craig McGinty on Jul 27, 2004 in Current Affairs.

    THE government plan to reform the heavily indebted health service is ever so slowly progressing through the French National Assembly. Despite union opposition they have been involved in a great deal of consultation and it is clear that something will have to be done to tackle the service?s ?12.9 billion debt.

    Will the USA have the balls to do with illegal immigrants as they do in the Netherlands?

    http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:VDWeIv6AR0oJ:www.nuigalway.ie/sites/eu-china-humanrights/seminars/ns0404h/brigit%2520toebes-eng.doc+illegal+alien+problems+in+netherland+health+plan&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    In the Netherlands, these groups generally speaking have sufficient access to health care services. Earlier I mentioned the special problems faced by the elderly and children with mental disorders, but these cannot be considered to be serious to the degree where they amount to discrimination.

    There is, however, one group in the Netherlands that is particularly susceptible to exclusion from medical services and they are illegally residing immigrants. Due to the so-called ?Matching Act?, only people with legal status are covered by the sickness fund. This means that illegal aliens are excluded from access to the health care package provided under the fund. In order to prevent inhumane situations from arising, the Matching Act provides that people without legal status may claim subsidised medical help in cases of ?medical necessity?. This means that they have access to a limited health care package.

    Personally I am ideologically opposed to the government getting more into health care. I don't like them owning GM.

    I don't buy into the idea that we as the taxpayers ever benefit from any of this nonsense.

    Beggars and child like thinking has taken hold of the American psyche. So much that people try to use local government controlled police, fire departments and schools as a point that the federals should take over. Roads is another one. The last time I looked roads were contracted out to Private contractors.

  •  
    19

    blacknblue2

    08/18/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    Said by "jimih2009

    08/18/09 | Report as spam
    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    Just TRY to get 'affordable' health insurance, if you have asthma, Rheumatoid arthritis,"

    I have both and have no problem getting insurance. But maybe it is because I don't expect the insurance company to pay for ever little hang nail so therefore I carry one of those high deductible plans.

    WTF is under-employed? Am I under-employed compared to my very wealthy neighbor? Who makes the call if you are or are not under-employed? Whiner!

  •  
    20

    blacknblue2

    08/18/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    Family of three here living on $35,000 and paying our own health insurance for the kid and spouse. It can be done. But I don't own a fancy cell phone or plan to go with it, have basic cable, I keep debts low, I drive used cars but very nice used cars.

    Yep, if by someone you mean an individual, you have some poor financial habits if you can't live on $25,000 a year. I believe in financial Darwinism. For too long we have allowed weeds to grow, we've propped up people and families that after multiple generations still don't get it. They are growing exponentially and how long will it be until they, as weeds in a garden will do, choke society to death?

    "You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."

    Where did you get the idea you deserve what another may or may not have? You talk of selfish but you are the epitome of selfishness when you expect to have what your neighbor has. If you don't know what your neighbor has you would be happy with your lot in life or at least in a spiritual manner you should be happy with your life. The happiest time in my life was when I lived in a tent. Hippie days ya know. I didn't have jack S but I was happy.

    I think I sense some jealousy coming from people that want what others have.

    "mwc2009

    mwc2009

    "08/18/09 | Report as spam
    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    Yea, let's just all worry about our own lives and everything else will fall into place. By disregarding all those that dont have the education or more normal family life you will add to the dilemma and create a bigger, more longer lasting social problems. If you think they can afford decent benefits on a 25000.00 a year then you must be kidding??"

  •  
    21

    jimih2009

    08/18/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    Said by blacknblue2 "WTF is under-employed?"

    "Under-employed" is when you get laid off and can only get a part-time job for a lot less money (and with no insurance). Check it out, when they report unemployment at 10% or so, they don't report "underemployment". When this is added in, the percent almost doubles!

    I don't know where you live, but try living in California on $25,000 a year, especially when you have on-going serious health issues, and can't get work because of disabilities.

    I'm not a whiner. I worked all my life and paid my bills and saved money, but with disabilities, no job with benefits, high personal insurance costs and then no insurance, it has all built up. I cna't work at most jobs because of my disability, and the "jobs" I can get are very low paid and temporary. Try living on essentially nothing and trying to get insurance with disabilities. No, I'm not a whiner - you are arrogant.

  •  
    22

    blacknblue2

    08/19/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    Said by "jimih2009
    I don't know where you live, but try living in California on $25,000 a year, especially when you have on-going serious health issues, and can't get work because of disabilities."

    Ah CA! I lived 13 years in SF, in 1986 sold my house in SF and moved out of CA. $25,000 a year in SF/LA is not much and may even qualify you for Medicaid. IF health problems is the reason for no health ins, this may help you: http://www.mrmib.ca.gov/

    CA is headed down and everyone on the ship is headed with it. Just one example of why they are so screwed: Medi-Cal Application (11 languages). When you must have all your stuff in 11 languages, it points out the social domestic nightmare called California. Go to France/Canada/Netherlands/Germany, etc. and see if you will have 11 different languages on a government application. It won't happen.

    In the early 70's I was living in SF, threw the Progress newspaper for a living (less than $5,000 a year). I would not take welfare/food stamps, etc. Lived at Oak and Divisadero which at that time was not a good area. I was burglarized three times in six months. I had no TV, I had no bed, lived with 4 other room mates, ate a lot of bean soup and yep...worried a lot about how I was going to survive. Me and another guy started a business and three years later I was making $30,000 a year. When I hear people crow today about poor, I also see the same people carrying cell phones, having cable TV, etc. Many of the twenty something think they are poor if they can't afford the latest gadgets.

    You are for a government plan so Medicaid should satisfy your needs if you can get it.

    BTW, the business we started way back when could probably not even get off the ground today. There is so much government red tape, so much up front fee/licensing/etc., that the bean soup eating person I was back then could not afford the start up costs.

    Yesterday I heard a speech by the former director of Medicaid, Dennis Smith. He said that Medicaid costs $1 billion a day and of that 10 percent is fraud. I can damn well guarantee you that private health insurance doesn't have 10% fraud.

    America is headed down a road that even though you may feel comfortable with all the government services, they are live heroin. They make you feel good at first but in the end will cripple you.

    Good luck and I hope that link helps you find health insurance.

  •  
    23

    blacknblue2

    08/19/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    Said by "jimih2009 I worked all my life and paid my bills and saved money, but with disabilities, no job with benefits, high personal insurance costs and then no insurance, it has all built up. I cna't work at most jobs because of my disability, and the "jobs" I can get are very low paid and temporary. Try living on essentially nothing and trying to get insurance with"

    If you read my above post I have lived on essentially nothing. I forgot to add that during the above time, for a month I lived in a parking lot. I do understand how being poor sucks.

    From your post I can't consider you a whiner. I have no problem with safety nets that would help people like yourself. But life throws us all curve balls and I can't expect the government to brace me up so much that I am living the same lifestyle as a person that works 19 hours a day. I know a guy that owns a pizza shop and he does / has been working 19 hours a day for years. Not sure how he does it??? So when you take tax money for services, you are taking them from a guy that works exceptionally hard. Self employed means I've been working 12 or more hours a day for over thirty years.

    You aren't a whiner if you worked and are now disabled. If you are that disabled get SSI. Hell I ran into enough people living in the Haight, in the 70's that were quite healthy but getting SSI.

    The safety nets that I don't have a problem with have turned into hammocks, they have turned into generational methods of living. They are the weeds that I describe. Not you.

  •  
    24

    lisa.york@...

    08/19/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    kkcnie - I believe kennethetucker was speaking to the "value" we the taxpayers received for a buck spent on the war versus a buck we could spend on homefront -- math aside, pissing a dollar away when you can't provide fundamental needs on the homefront isn't even an approachable strategy for corporations -- so why our government does it is just negligent money management.

    I recently saw a documentary of millionaire retirees who have the means to access and pay for their share of healthcare and because they have full access to medicare, they drum up medical costs in the forms of massages, chiropractic care and "spa treatments" -- all of these folks live in half million-dollar homes and are fully capable of not relying on medicare. They have money to play on the best golf courses in their state.

    My thoughts are to 1) make *those* users have to pay more out of pocket costs associated with their care since they are able and free up the benefits for those who don't have the income the wealthy have and 2) if they have private insurance, don't offer medicare to them at all.

    I would think goverment programs/accesses should be "needs-based" and I believe that's the intent behind the care Obama wants folks to have access to. I do not want to be taxed on the benefits I have. I believe we pay enough taxes and the abusive spending that goes on needs to be reeled in before we are taxed one cent more. Still can't figure out how lobbiests invest millions and billions paying to sway votes and how we still manage to have a deficit with taxpayers footing the bill -- where do all those billions go in the paid-for government we have????

  •  
    25

    rrusson_z

    08/19/09 | Report as spam

    A Just Society --or New Sparta?

    One way or another, in a humane society we take care of our citizens' health. And it gets paid for. One of the great fallacies in public thinking about health care is that insuring everyone is going to incur a huge cost to the system. What do you suppose happens when the uninsured need medical attention? Typically they get their primary care in the emergency room at several times the cost --and often leave false billing information so the cost is passed on to the rest of us. This debate is not really about incurring new onerous expenses, but shifting the way health care is paid for. Personally, I think we could do better than the system we've got. At a minimum, not waiting until a health problem is an emergency ought to lower overall health care costs (not to mention increasing worker productivity and other side benefits).

  •  
    26

    eheal@...

    08/21/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    Here's a revolutionary idea, If you gave all those people a job, then health insurance would not be an issue.
    This is how you do it.

    The news has long reported that our road and electrical infrastructure is crumbling, simple, fix it. Take my money that is now being used for TARP and what they want to use for health care reform and fund infrastructure projects. Guarentee anyone who wants a job, work on these projects. Make them federal employees. This would put them under the same health care as federal employees have now. This solves 4 problems. 1 - employees people, 2 - provides healthcare for those people, 3 - provides badly needed repair and upgrades to our roads and electrical grid, 4 - keeps the money in the US.

    In addition to this, drop the regulations reguarding the out of state sale of health care insurance. This would allow individuals and businesses to purchase the best and least expensive insurance for them. It would also promote competition between the insurance companies. If I could shop for health care insurance from another state like I can for my car, I'm going to do it.

    This makes so much sence, a caveman would know it.

  •  
    27

    LLL2

    08/22/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    I think there are some additional penalties hidden in the "pay or play" part of the bill that are worth mentioning:

    1) Companies dropping health care plans altogether when they realise the "stiff penalty" is still a lot less than they've been paying for health care -- relegating those employees to a govt. run program or paying 100% for their own policy.

    2) Loss of jobs for some at companies w/ "a few more than 25" employees who choose to lay a few people off to get their number down to 25 and avoid the penalties.

    3) Possible cut in wages at companies that have to start paying a penalty.

  •  
    28

    Mrs. Mazza

    09/17/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    ?Health care reform, if it passes, will cost about $1 trillion over the next 10 years. Negotiators in the Senate and House are now saying they?ve winnowed the cost down to ?only? $900 billion or so. Where will that money come from? Look in the mirror.?

    The United States spent $2 TRILLION dollars on healthcare in 2007 ALONE. That money comes from the same place as a universal healthcare system. I think we can all agree that at the current level operation, we don?t get enough bang for our buck, so to speak.

    Sure, $900 billion dollars over ten years sounds like a lot?but it sounds better than $2 trillion dollars in a single year. Wouldn?t you agree?

    "...the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the House proposal would actually increase the deficit by $239 billion over 10 years."

    Sure, but did you know that the Medicare system already in place is projected to increase the deficit by much more in a shorter period of time? Hence the urgency to reform the health care system NOW.

    "If you?re an individual making over $280,000 or a family with income over $350,000, you could eventually be looking at a tax surcharge of from 1.0 to 5.4 percent on your income above that amount."

    So, we're taking from the rich to give to the poor...and thaaaaaaaaat's.....bad?

    "Although not strictly related to health care financing, there?s a certain logic to raising money for health reform through taxes on sugary soft drinks and alcohol. On the other hand, sin taxes tend to fall disproportionately on poor people, who have less ability to pay taxes in the first place."

    So, if we make soft drinks and alcohol unaffordable to poor people, we are doing them a disservice? Okay. If they're not spending their money on soft drinks and alcohol, they'll be able to afford the canned goods they need. Just sayin'.

    "Some small businesses would be exempt from this provision, including employers with 25 or fewer employees under the Senate bill and employers with annual payrolls of less than either $250,000 or $500,000 under the House bill."

    There you go. So although employers would be required to offer health insurance to their employees, they make provisions for the little guy. It's win-win.

    Michelle, it seems you are against a universal health care program, but you have yet to give a reasonable argument as to why you are against it.

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    29

    time111

    10/31/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    It looks like this health care bill will have a major impact on the
    stock market, as it directly affects the costs of all businesses,
    and therefore their profitability.

    Expect additional stock market volatility as the bill comes
    forward for votes.

    time111
    admin: http://invetrics.com

  •  
    30

    allangering

    11/10/09 | Report as spam

    RE: What Health Care Reform Will Cost You

    My family of 2 currently pays about $3000/yr in premiums for employer-based coverage that requires a $1400 deductible for each of us. Under our plan, this premium wouldn't change if we added another child. It appears we now pay considerably less than what would be expected of us under the House proposal if we didn't have employer-based coverage, even if the deductibles are factored in.
    _________________
    Agrandar El Pene

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